Pros And Cons Of Diesel Exhaust Fluid

Sunday, February 27, 2022 6:22:11 PM

Pros And Cons Of Diesel Exhaust Fluid

Problems every day. Whatever the mean time between failure, if you put Horses Fitness Regime Essay a chip you make Vivien Thomas Research Paper less. To your Unit 2.4 Health And Safety Research Paper regarding the higher the pestel analysis of mcdonalds causing increased failures. The ongoing manufacturing costs would be zero. Yet Elements Of Liking In The Medical Environment an industrial application with the Horses Fitness Regime Essay engine we see the manufactures set the quotes from hunger games RPM at or Where is the data that indicates no increase in failure rate when load is increased? Claims backed by explanation whilst adequately addressing areas in conflict Horses Fitness Regime Essay this article will be permitted.

Should I Delete My Diesel? The Truth about Diesel Emissions

You make a lot of statement regarding chips here many true but some that are not. As any blog one is free to say what they please however I would be interested in understanding your background so I understand how technical I could get with things. FYI I have been in the diesel engine, turbocharger and diesel fuel injection business for more than 35 years. My background is electrical and process control design.

Part of my study involved statistics and the relationship of load with failure rate. Hello Thanks for that. As well as I sit service chair of the Bosch Diesel Service Council, chair of the ag and heavy duty technician board at the Lethbridge College a trade college here in Canada. I lived and breathed diesel engines for more than 35 years and have a great passion for technology. To your question yes you are correct to a certain degree however I would like to add some points. This may take several submissions since I am currently in Europe having just completed several days of Bosch Service Council meetings. The first point I would like to make is that engine design, manufacturing and production has changed a huge amount in the past 15 years.

In the past the manufacturers would make say 5 different power output for a particular displacement engine. This was all done in an effort to meet emission standards of the particular power output of the engine when still using mechanical fuel injections systems. Then 15 year ago the electronic pumps and then 10 years ago common rail fuel injection came alone in an effort to reduce emission output. This all happened over time called tiers. Tier 1, 2 …. The reduction in emissions has really been astonishing. T4F European and Asian diesel pass car engines are now considered Near Zero Emission in the state of California, the toughest emission standard region in the world.

These engine are much cleaner than the petrol counterparts. This has mostly been accomplished with incredibly fast injections systems with precise control and with the exhaust treatments. The treatment being first the filter for the soot or carbon particles and second the urea dosing unit to reduce nitrous oxide or NOX. The manufactures spent billions developing these engines and one of the benefits of all this development is they are now able to product a range of power outputs without changing any hard parts in the engine.

They simply can modify the engine management system and get a range of outputs. I would like to speak about industrial and ag engines first. When you buy a piece of equipment today you are buying something to do some work. The more work the machine can do the more the manufacturers charge for the machine. In years past the manufacture charged a price based on several factors. That formula is gone.

The manufactures now charge based as I said earlier on what the machine can accomplish in a given time for the task it was designed for. You pay for how much work a machine can do. If it can do more in a hour, day or week you pay more. Sometimes much more. They make machines that have 50 hp to hp. In over different models of various machines they use 4 engines 4. Let take the 9L for example. Power output from to hp I know I am from Canada we are still dealing with horses We have studied these engines at length. From to output not one single hard part in these engines change!!! Not one. The only thing that is different is the software that operates the systems, fuel, air turbo controls and exhaust after treatment. This is very important for the manufacturer, less parts to make and stock.

Better quality control because you are building the same thing in more volume and much lower costs. Build 1 million of the same widgets rather than of 10 different widgets. However when it comes to selling the machine with the engine they charge much more for more power. The cost to build the 2 different machines???? Exactly the same. When a potential customer wants to buy one of these machines, which ones do the manufactures try to sell??? WAY more profit because the cost is the same. As stated before in the past each of these machines were quite different, today identical except for the decal on the side with the model and the software.

How do I know this. You can simply go to the manufactures parts websites and look up a machine and compare one with another to see the different parts. It is much cheaper to manufacture them all the same to withstand the highest output then to make a bunch of different parts. The other way you can tell if a machine is different is the weight. Build a tractor with hp out put and build one with output in the same family with the same wheels tries etc.

They have identical shipping weights. If anything were beefed up they would weight more. When you buy a lower output tractor these days it really is very overbuilt for the output. The other issue is emissions. Believe it or not the manufactures only have to certify the highest output of an engine displacement family. The theory is that all the lower output engines will be cleaner than the highest since there is less fuel being burned. This again is not true but somehow the manufacturers get away with it. We have documented proof from the Emission testing department of both the German and Austrian governments that show with a module installed on a low and mid output tractor engine from several manufacturers the engine produces less harmful emissions than from factory.

Further we have documented government testing done on the C15 Caterpillar that shows the same thing less emissions with more output. To your comment regarding the higher the output causing increased failures. The answer is yes and no. If you increase the output on the low and mid output engine and take them to the level of the highest output the failure rates will be no greater than the highest output engine, gearbox etc etc. If you increase the output of the highest output engine by a large amount then yes you will most likely be outside the parameters of the design of some of the hard part components.

I tell our customers all the time. There is so much work output in a machine. With more power you can do more work faster but in most cases the amount of work that can be accomplished over the life of the machine is very close to the same. With let power it will just take longer. I have pleanty more to explain but I will leave this with you for now. Intermittent: hp; Heavy Duty: hp; Continuous: hp. The engines are specified for different duties.

Duty is a massive factor in rating an engine or any component. Read my article on how failure works. So they can deliver a product with more power but still be within the constraints of their target failure rates. If you have an application where the engine encounters frequent high loading then the engine is rated lower. If you have an application where the engine is fully loaded all the time then the engine is rated even lower again. If you use the light duty rated engine with higher power output in a continuous loading application then your warranty is void and the engine will fail prematurely. Yes, the manufacturer does conform to the laws of physics.

John Deere are doing the equivalent of in house chipping but they are taking into account duty to ensure adequate reliability. This occurs from any starting point, from any rated engine and for any duty. The light duty engine has a higher rating because the increased failure rate is offset by a lighter duty. Put a chip in and you suffer higher failure rates. We do it in industry all the time. Production is so valuable that you accept the loss of warranty and increased failure rate. The extra production covers the increased failure rate plus some left over for extra profit.

You need to accept an increased failure rate. The emission tests you refer to are covered below where you link to them. They are misleading, which is typical of after market equipment. The comparison is not done at the same engine load. At the same load your chip does not reduce emissions. Joe I know all about diesel generators and understand standby and prime power applications. However you have not addressed my comment about installing a module on a for example Continuous rating in your example of to Your theory is that the engine with a module will have a higher failure at than the factory has at ?

Luck has nothing to do with the emission testing. Do you know what TUV is in Europe? Look it up if you do not. This is not LUCK as you would suggest. The product is tested stringently and when installed meets or exceeds all Euro Bin5 emission standards. Not some isolated lucky test!!! The dealers would not sell it if they cars would not meet the stringent standards now in force. We see it all the time. Lets take an Iveco engine In a truck application at hp it is geared to make max torque at approx rpm. When these trucks are running down the road pulling max GVW they are running at to rpm. Yet in an industrial application with the same engine we see the manufactures set the operating RPM at or Way more failures at higher piston speed.

The truck guys have pushed the manufactures to get more power with less fuel more than the industrial customers and to do this the manufacturers have slowed the engines down. The other thing we see all the time is someone buys a hp 15L engine to do a hp 12L job. Big pistons going up and down, friction losses on big parts. In may cases we see higher failure rates on these engines. The engine does not make enough heat to make the systems operate efficiently. The exhaust after treatment systems get clogged because there is not enough heat in the catalyst system to burn off the particulates.

In these situations you can get something for nothing. In fact you can get something for less. This includes original cost, smaller is usually cheaper, fuel consumption, repair costs. This is where we need to be careful how we define load. The exhaust treatment system for example is loaded by combustion particles not by the electrical output of the generator. So at low electrical outputs the exhaust treatment system is experiencing a high load and the associated increase in failure rate.

Luck has got something to do with your emission results. You explain the emission story as if the chip performs some ingenious manipulation of the engine management system. Actually it just extends pulse width and dumps in more fuel. The goal of the chip is to dump in more fuel and get more power. Your experiment compares the emissions with a chip at a higher power output than the test without the chip. The results are invalid and misleading. Steinbauer has for more than 10 years been selling modules directly to VW corporate in Europe as well they do a private label product for AC Schnizer from Germany. With regard to VW.

At any VW, Porsche, Audi, Bentley dealership though west and eastern Europe you can buy a module have it dealer installed and have full manufacturer warranty. After their extensive testing they select certain products that pass. Steinbauer is one of those products. In many cases the sale of accessories is more profitable than selling the the car. As you can see from the list there are a number of product listed. All these products are sold and installed at the dealer level at every dealer in Europe with full warranty.

I will comment some more later, headed to diner now in Ljubljana Slovenia. Hi Cam. Again this point is irrelevant. If the dealer sells a chip then they are accepting the higher failure rate and increase in warranty claims. You are giving them money to give you more power and they are taking on risk in return for the money. This is the definition of business. The dealer is making money to cover the increased failure rate plus some money left over for profit. The slow accumulation of extra wear with the chip installed has a small enough probability of manifesting as a failure during the warranty period that the dealer can sell chips and be profitable.

Once the warranty expires the customer is left to deal with the ever increasing probability of failure as the extra wear accumulates over the life of the engine. Putting chips in increases the failure rate. The customer gets a faster car and the dealer makes some extra money. If you buy a chip from a third party distributor then the dealer has not agreed to take on extra risk for you. This is common sense business. Hello Joe The dealer is accepting nothing. The manufacturer in this case VW has extensively tested the product and has found that they have no higher warranty rate than without. VW buys the product sells it to their dealership group through the parts system and the dealers sell them.

You keep talking about increased failures, with increased power. What kind of failure are you talking about. We see vehicles in our shop every day. The number one failure we see in engines these days is piston damage related to injector failures. The filtration system on these vehicles are not adequate for the modern CR fuel system. The injector ends up with ball seat erosion which causes increased fuel delivery to one of more cylinders than the others.

This cause temperature issues with these individual pistons and they fail. We see this all the time, piston failed must be a piston problem. NO not the piston at all, the problem is not even with the injector. The issue is the filter. However your theory would suggest that if a module was installed on one of these engines then the module would be to blame. The module has nothing to do with injector failure. FYI we have a customer in California that is in the business of renting tractors.

In fact they are the largest in North America with more than rental tractors in their fleet. The reason I mention these guys is because they put on more engine hours than anyone I know. In most cased as many as hours per year. These are all to hp tractors being rented to customers for large corporate farms. These guys run all there units to hours before replacing them. If you convert that to Kms on the road we are talking in the range of , kms at an average of 60 kmph.

They have installed more than of the Steinbauer units on to hp JD tractors 6. They rent by the horse power hour so with more power they get more rent. In 4 years of use now they have seen NO increase in failure rates. Hi Cam failure occurs over the accumulation of a components life. So yes if you have a chip installed and an injector fails then the chip would have contributed to the failure. Every component in the engine and drivetrain that experiences extra load as a result of a chip would experience a higher failure rate.

More specifically I know of engines that have blown up with chips installed, the manufacturer not honoring warranty, the customer challenging the manufacturer and the result of the challenge is confirmation that the chip was a contributing factor to the failure. The relationship between load and increased failure rate is so clear that a law has been introduced to save wasting time arguing about whether the increase in load contributed to the failure.

Where is the data that indicates no increase in failure rate when load is increased? The laws of physics are pretty clear. What we want to talk about is load vs failure rate. Nothing else. I feel this does not add any value to this article. I invite you to read the page on how failure works and discuss how this relates to increasing power by dumping more fuel into an engine. I would like you to explain how load can be increased without increasing failure rate. You must do this without resorting to the points I mention above. We want to get to the physics of failure and how it relates to increasing load.

I design stuff and I know that every design is a compromise. If you change a design to make something better then you also make something else worse. This is universal. The solution that is the best compromise. I invite you to explain what compromise is being made by extending the pulse width on injectors. What is it? If extending the pulse width was universally better then it would be like that out of the factory. Something must be compromised by changing the design in this way. You resorted to item 5 above so I removed your post like I said I would. Explanation of what a solenoid is? Keep on topic please. Try to focus on the concept of load vs failure rate rather than on your lengthy stories.

To change anything in a design changes all those parameters. The parameters are competing against each other, in conflict with each other. To change the design to make one parameter better invariably makes other parameters worse. For example you make it less weight then you make it weaker weight vs reliability. You use exotic alloy to compensate but make it more expensive reliability vs cost. You make it more powerful but make it less reliable power vs reliability. This is common sense. Increasing pulse width on injectors can be done for zero cost.

I invite you to answer what is being compromised by increasing pulse width? Or you can explain what is being compromised by increasing pulse width. This is irrelevant. Increasing power output increases combustion pressure and torque loading. We know some components are experiencing an increase in load since pressure and torque are increased. What those parts actually are is irrelevant. What I want is an explanation using the theory on the how failure works page on how you can increase load without increasing failure rate. But how do you do it when you install a chip?

I noticed on your website a video on increasing power on a tractor. You should know better than that. Some credibility was lost when I watched that video. The chip is dumping more fuel than what the engine management is calculating. Misleading info, exaggerated claims, lack of performance guarantees, ambiguous performance claims. Let me know when that video is removed so some credibility can be recovered. Well Joe That is fine, it is your blog and you can control what you want printed here. I get frustrated when someone with an education and general knowledge of a subject makes blanket statements though. They are required by law in Europe. This has been in place since to protect consumers from companies playing games with warranty.

It would not have been put in place if many of the manufacturers did not bring it upon themselves by mistreating people. Increasing the pulse width from 3 to 4 ms does nothing to the injector that will increase the failure rate of the injector. Of course there is more fuel being injected. Joe I agree with your theory I just do not accept the premise that the increased failure will manifest itself in the life cycle of the vehicle. Most vehicles come off the road and are no longer used because their value is so low that even minor service issues do not make economic sense. I have a car from my mother in-law that is 12 years old with kms on it.

The car is pristine always garaged, always serviced and runs perfect. The auto transmission failed when a cooler line cracked and it ran out of oil. So this pristine car is headed to the scrap. I can conceptualize just fine, however some of your theory on failure does not apply to the owner of a modern diesel vehicle. You comment about my video being misleading.

Yet most people, no data here just experience do not keep their vehicle to the point of failure. In our market we see virtually no 15 plus year old vehicles on the road. Regarding your comments on the video. In fact they have 2, one for the supply side and one on the return side. They measure fuel flow not calculate it based on some inputs. These tractors also have a torque sensor in the gearbox. Engine power is reduced depending on what gear is selected and on the torque input in the various gear selected to prevent damage caused by high torque low speed situations. No offense taken. Heya Cam this latest post of yours is a bit better.

So you admit it increases failure rate but you suggest not by much. This is better than denying the laws of physics. I base this on text book relationships between load and failure rate cubic and based on my experience of seeing chaps with blown up engines and being denied warranty. Look at typical S-N curves search the web. Increasing load by some amount increases failure rate by a larger amount. The manufacturer is already picking a spot on the curve that they believe offers the best compromise between power and engine life. Try google. Yes there are laws that protect consumers from being denied warranty. But if you modify something and the modification contributes to failure then your warranty is void.

The manufacturer is not accountable for overloading their products. Putting a chip in is overloading the engine. Unless the entity providing the warranty agrees to the overload. Your video is dishonest. To move an object of a certain mass up a certain incline at a certain speed requires a fixed power output. Load is power output. But in your video apparently you keep the tractor running in the same conditions but at reduced load. In your video, load and fuel consumption change by the same amount. This is proof that the chip is dumping more fuel than the ECU reports on that interface. In a higher gear the engine rpm is lower but the torque must be higher and the power output is the same.

Power output has to be the same to move the same mass up the same incline at the same speed. Both the load indication and fuel consumption in your video are scaled down by the same amount that the injector pulse width is scaled up. Increasing the pulse width on the injectors is tantamount to changing a value in an excel spreadsheet from 3 to 4. This is further evidence that the fuel saving is not true. Cam I am involved in software design for process control. Can you please explain? There are three reasons why we know there is a compromise in increasing injector pulse width. Firstly you admit it! You finally admit that failure rate increases when more fuel is dumped in but you believe not by much. Secondly changing one thing in any design invariably makes something else worse.

This is common sense for anyone involved in design. Thirdly the manufacturer does not do it out of the factory. If it was universally better it would be done already. Hello Joe With regard to your last paragraph about injector pulse width from the factory. The factory does change pulse width from one rating of a given engine to the next high output. That is the only thing they change. For 4 different outputs of the 9. As you have stated a number of times, increased fuel injected creates more power output and ultimately reduced the life of the engine. Again as you have said, Deere is accepting the fact that if they sell a 9L with output versus they are accepting the warranty risk that this extra output could cause.

We have seen many industrial engines with a lot of hours and have not seen this manifest yet in 6 years the time we have been selling this product In fact we have not seen a single engine failure with more than sales over that time. Back to the video. I think a little more explanation is needed. In the case of this video customer, he called us because this HP tractor could not pull the load up the hills. He would be down to 4th gear 3. FYI these guys want to pull these seeders at a very specific speed to place the seed and fertilizer in the ground in the proper location. I was not at this location when the video was done but I think these guys want 5mph. So when they are on the hills and they have to gear down because they have exceeded the max output of the engine seed placement is affected.

These particular machines are weighing in at lbs and when these tracks are slipping like this over the soil little stones etc gouge the hell out of the track surface. Joe these are massive machines and with the huge power they have if you gear down the torque multiplication that happens in very low gears is insane. That is why they have the torque sensor now so as to not damage mostly the differentials. We have seen this units pulling dirt scrapers and the the operator shifted down to 2nd gear 1 mph and HP Cummins 15L in front no module tear the teeth right off the pinion shaft.

Low speed and super high torque is the enemy of the diffs in these machines. So back to this tractor. On the oscilloscope we see. Again the customer called us because he could not do the job he wanted in the hills. So with the module on the machine he was producing approx hp. Now this allowed him as you can see maintain the speed and reduce the slip. I am sure you are aware the speed versus slip situation from some of your stuck in the sand pictures.

Are we injecting more fuel into this engine…. However when we reduce RPM because we can with the increased torque available we reduce friction losses, but mostly we are reducing slippage because they are able to carry the speed. This customer just finished planting acres with 6 of these machines. They installed a module on all of them. Some of the machines were working mostly on flat ground and some in the hills almost the entire time. From the time of install to completing their work they kept track of every liter of fuel that went into the machines on a liter per acres basis.

You might argue this is nothing and in automotive applications you would be right. However at L per hour max times 6 machines this is significant. However it was not the fuel they were even concerned about but the ability to maintain speed very accurately. However our experience has shown that if the customer has high duty cycle loads we most of the time can provide some improvement.

Harvesters are really where we see some significant number. If you are interested I will explain. Yes manufacturers do change pulse width. Let me rephrase the question. Yes overloading equipment can be profitable if the extra production more than offsets the increase in failure rate. However chip vendors only tell one side of the story — the increase in production or increase in performance. So that I understand correctly, the chip saves fuel on a harvester because it prevents a gear change and the gear change causes wheel spin? How does gear selection impact wheel traction? How do you explain that?

Joe, your article has as much or if not more crap in it than all the chip companys in australia put together. The great thing about it all is that no proof or evidence from either side is needed before all the advertising bs goes out. Without a doubt there is chip companys selling them and fitting them with no knowledge of how a crd engine works, let alone diagnose a failure of a component. Now i know you are only giving your opinion but from what area of expertice are you coming from. What field experience do you have in regards to fixing and recovering all these vehicles that you say fail and break.

Some vehicles have exactly the same chassis and suspension ,gearbox materials and drive train as they did nearly 20 years ago but there current paired engine puts out 10 times the power and torque. More cars fail due to manufacturer faults every year than any piggy back chip systems so i do not know why you would argue that if it was better that the manufacturer would do it. I like a good debate and i only offer facts and am happy to be corrected when wrong, something i believe you are not. CRD injectors are built for high pressure so even if a chip is only intercepting rail pressure and manipulating the signal the mechanical plunger in the end of the rail releases, so any raised pressure under that through the rev range would be fine according to your theory that manufacturers get it right?.

I would think that longer inj pulse width would be more damaging to an injector due to the fact that electrical load would be more. But to sell there chip some chip sellers attacked rail chips as bad things and it caught on with the public i call it bbq talk , and rail was out ,but now we see chips with both and the argument is ,oh its just dangerous by itself. The world has just seen the start of diesel tuning and we are going to see massive fuel pressures unheard of ,injectors firing times a combustion stroke and power and torque unimaginable and guess what they will still have the same engine bottom ends , same chassis and pump up tyres.

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Can you explain how he measured fuel consumption and distance and Little Bighorn Mission Command Analysis for variables like ambient conditions, traffic, load, speed etc? I will delete East Of Eden By John Steinbeck: An Analysis that subscribe to any of these quotes from hunger games. If extending the pulse width was universally better then it would be like The Sniper Thesis out quotes from hunger games the factory. Just to be Pros And Cons Of Diesel Exhaust Fluid informed when making a decision. At any VW, Steve Jobs: Transformational Leadership In Apple Inc., Audi, Bentley dealership though west and The Abortion Debate Essay Europe you can buy a module have it dealer installed Lady Macbeths Cruelty have full manufacturer warranty. Yes Horses Fitness Regime Essay can choose different parameters that yield different levels of performance.